This post is part five in our series on The Seven Deadly Heresies, as given by Elder McConkie (see here).
The fifth heresy, according to Elder McConkie, is the idea that there is progression within the kingdoms of glory after the resurrection.
Heresy five: There are those who say that there is progression from one kingdom to another in the eternal worlds or that lower kingdoms eventually progress to where higher kingdoms once were.So the question is whether the kingdoms are locked from progression after entrance, or whether there is some progression after entry so that we could progress to eventual Celestial status.
This belief lulls men into a state of carnal security. It causes them to say, "God is so merciful; surely he will save us all eventually; if we do not gain the celestial kingdom now, eventually we will; so why worry?" It lets people live a life of sin here and now with the hope that they will be saved eventually.
The true doctrine is that all men will be resurrected, but they will come forth in the resurrection with different kinds of bodies--some celestial, others terrestrial, others telestial, and some with bodies incapable of standing any degree of glory. The body we receive in the resurrection determines the glory we receive in the kingdoms that are prepared.
Of those in the telestial world it is written: "And they shall be servants of the Most High; but where God and Christ dwell they cannot come, worlds without end" (D&C 76:112).
Of those who had the opportunity to enter into the new and everlasting covenant of marriage in this life and who did not do it, the revelation says:
Therefore, when they are out of the world they neither marry nor are given in marriage; but are appointed angels in heaven; which angels are ministering servants, to minister for those who are worthy of a far more, and an exceeding, and an eternal weight of glory.
For these angels did not abide my law; therefore, they cannot be enlarged, but remain separately and singly, without exaltation, in their saved condition, to all eternity; and from henceforth are not gods, but are angels of God forever and ever. [D&C 132:16-17]
They neither progress from one kingdom to another, nor does a lower kingdom ever get where a higher kingdom once was. Whatever eternal progression there is, it is within a sphere.
Elder McConkie relies on D&C 76's description about the inhabitants of the Telestial Kingdom that they cannot visit the Savior and the Father or be where the are. He also relies on D&C 132's description of those who reject the new and everlasting covenant.
Those who believe in some type of progression rely on D&C 19, specifically verse 6, which says:
"Nevertheless, it is not written that there shall be no end to this torment, but it is written endless torment."
I suppose to proponents this means that punishment is not eternal but that after our punishment we can increase in glory as we perfect ourselves.
Additionally, a supporter of this theory would say that the Telestial Kingdom scripture mentioned above does not specifically say that it will be eternally so. One could be in the situation until he is ready to progress. Moreover, Heber C. Kimball taught an eternal progression model (perhaps BHodges can give us an idea where to look in the JD). Proponents are not comfortable with the absolutism of eternal placement where our theology is generally not so absolutist. I don't see how this can displace Section 132 above, but I don't see any scriptural support beyond Section 19 and it's tenuous at best.
Kimball's model seemed to further Joseph Smith's teachings that we only receive blessings from ordinances as soon as we are ready to receive them. Therefore, if one receive assurance of salvation, while guaranteed, it would not occur until that person is ready. Brigham espoused the idea that we resurrect in Celestial glory and make the jump directly to Celestial substance, whereas one could argue based on JS's statement that we attain a kingdom and then progress to receive our blessing as soon as we are prepared.
My final thoughts:
1) Like previous posts, this is certainly not case-closed as Elder McConkie suggests (astonishing!).
2) My gut tends to feel better with the progression idea because as Alma and Amulek taught, we are raised in the state that we die in. If we are in great need of improvement and are still bound to be Celestial, that leaves a huge gap between death and resurrection.
3) Despite my gut feeling against absolutism, there are similar circumstances of absolutism (War in Heaven) where we understand a group to have made their choice and no further progression is possible. While this may feel like a contradiction of Moses 1:39, I just don't see a lot of scriptural support for the progression model, and not much more direct support for the model advocated by Elder McConkie. I think that, like many of these deeper points of doctrine, it is better to stay open minded because it really hasn't been revealed relative to what we are asking. Any GA statements are, most likely, speculation and will contradict each other (I'll see your Talmage and raise you a Wilford Woodruff).
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"...but I don't see any scriptural support beyond Section 19 and it's tenuous at best."
Tenuous indeed.
Notwithstanding early apostolic speculations, I believe that the modern church authorities have reached a general consensus that Doctrine & Covenants 19 refers to the suffering of those who choose not to repent, but are not sons of perdition, and who therefore must suffer in Spirit Prison PRIOR to their resurrection at the end of Millennium. Then, after having suffered for their sins, every knee will bow and every tongue confess Jesus, and they will go on to receive a kingdom of glory. It is the suffering prior to resurrection that eventually ends, but the assignment of a kingdom of glory is a permanent, final, absolute destination.
Elder McConkie's use of D&C 76 is a great deal more sophisticated than merely relying on the idea that the telestial persons cannot visit the Savior or the Father. He is clearly using the idea the the resurrected bodies of telestial beings are in key ways essentially different than the resurrected bodies of the Celestial. This concept seems to be tied to the doctrine of the law of Restoration described by Alma to Corianton in Alma 41 and by Lehi to his sons in 2 Nephi 9. This concept of differring bodies and Restoration is combined with the doctrine that the resurrection is the permanent, insperable union of the spirit and body (D&C 138:17, D&C 93:33, Alma 11:45).
Abraham 3 also plays into the Absolutist doctrine of Elder McConkie, even though he does not cite it. Verse 26 says: "And they who keep their first estate shall be added upon; and they who keep not their first estate shall not have glory in the same kingdom with those who keep their first estate; and they who keep their second estate shall have glory added upon their heads for ever and ever."
Even though it does not state that those who do not keep their second estate will never be added-upon, it does set up a parallelism between the first and second estates that implies something like that.
I'm not sure that the doctrine of Restoration is merely that we are raised in the state we die in. I think it is that we are "add-upon" according to the portion of the law we abide (D&C 88:29-32). Or as Alma says in Alma 41:6: " If he hath repented of his sins, and desired righteousness until the end of his days, even so he shall be rewarded unto righteousness."
If resurrection is a restoration to a body requisite to the portion of the law that quickens us, and that resurrection is permanent, then our progression is permanently circumscribed by the limitations of that body. That seems to be Elder McConkie's reasoning.
Good post.
I had a good laugh at the "I'll see your Talmage and raise you a Wilford Woodruff"
I'd have to agree with j. max wilson also. I believe people only suffer in the spirit prison hell until their specific sins are paid for by their suffering - some beaten with many stripes and some with few.
People find their nitch in life. Satan decided to go the wrong way and the third that went with him have no intention of changing. It's like the Nephites at their end. They could see it coming, but wouldn't change. Once that nitch is established people will just live with their decision.
I think that we all concur then that D&C 19 is referring to suffering while is the Spirit. Punishment cannot be eternal because once that person as suffered the punishment, that law is fulfilled.
Elder McConkie's analysis is much deeper than I gave him credit for (one of my typical flaws) but I think that we can all agree that what the sciptures he quotes and J. Max adds indicate that the actual bodies are Celestial vs. Telestial and therefore cannot abide the presence of the higher.
So two final thoughts here:
1) Because the scriptures don't specifically mention this point of doctrine, I could still see room for the possibility that even though one is in the state of Telestial, the scriptures cited (with possibly the exception of D&C 132) seem to say that when one is in that state, one is stuck in that state, with the exception of the highest degree of Celestial glory (Section 131). This is pure speculation and something that leaders have really only speculated on, but I still see room to say that one could progress after that point.
2) I said in the original post that my gut feeling would like for some room for the possibility of progression, but Abraham 3 really is absolutist. The 1/3 had their chance. They are probably stuck where they are. This would mean that it is not quite so foreign that the future state could be absolutist. The scriptures lean this way, along with current GA opinions, and so I tend to lean that way.
But because this is not one of those scriptural points that is undeniably clear cut (i.e. like the resurrection) I am still open to be convinced. In the past I got stuck believing in such theories and then realized that it may still be more open to interpretation. But Elder McConkie brought it up, so it is free for comment!
I just think that it is much more nuanced that I we taught from the 4th discussion but is both 1) not completely revealed and 2) not really that important in the long term. Perhaps Elder McConkie considered it "deadly" because belief in progression may lull people into a sense of security to sin now and repent later, because if progression is not the correct interpretation, then....well I guess it is better to play this one more conservative.
Iknow it may not mean anything to anyone else as it is my personal experience. But I have actually discussed this subject with Heavenly Father face-to-face. And he has told me that all people do finally decide on what they want to be, and stay that way from choice.
So often we see people say things like, "I wish I could be more spiritual." If they really wanted to be so they would become so. What they really mean is that part of them feels there would be some benefit to being more spiritual but other parts of them disagree. And the disagreeing parts are greater than the agreeing part.
Others say, "you are probably right but I'll just keep doing it this way."
We think that everybody will be busting to spend forever raising billions of children and putting up with Satans and all the other stuff??? Having no holidays or time to yourself???
It takes dedication to mankind and love and all those other virtues to make a God. Not everyone will be keen at all.
But let me say that from the incredible joy and love I have felt in Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ it is worth it all - as he promises.
Lots of GAs, of course, have come out on the other side of this issue.
See here for a small sample:
http://www.newcoolthang.com/index.php/some-pro-progression-between-kingdoms-quotes/
As for reasoning, either we believe in repentence or we don't. Either we believe in eternal progession or we don't.
Bruce R. McConkie was a great man, but he made many assertions without the support of the quorum and wholly on his own accord.
I'm afraid I file 7 deadly Heresies in the folder I file all of Paul H. Dunn's talks.
Matt W.
To Anonymous,
I don't know if I would call 4 or 5 quotes from GA's support from "lots" of GA's.
Moreover, I think you oversimplify the questions related to progression between kingdoms. I don't think anyone questions whether we believe in repentance or exaltation. Instead, I think we question whether both are limited, and if so, where that limitation lies.
Any thoughts?
I just came onto this blog in response to a search. I'm afraid I agree with Hans' post: we have to keep our minds open. Not all that general authorities said was fact; they are given to speculation, and it's best if we keep this in mind. My husband and I have discussed this point exhaustively, and agree that we do believe in eternal progression. Concerning the 1/3 of the hosts of heaven which followed Lucifer, I infer that there is a point--a decision--which cements our case; something we decide (they decided) that is irrevocable. This is what set them apart and denied them any further progression.
Look at Doctrine and Covenants 76:86-88. The question is: Why would angels/ministering spirits be sent from a higher kingdom to minister to those in a lower kingdom, if they were not going to be allowed to progress to that higher kingdom? What does it mean to "minister"? To be taught? What do angels do for us here? Teach. McConkie states that inhabitants in lower kingdoms will be able to progress within that kingdom, but not beyond it. So, if someone decided to progress as high as he could go in a kingdom, would he be satisfied at never, for all eternity, being able to go any higher? It doesn't sound like God's mercy to keep someone down forever who wanted to grow toward Him.
Next, look at Doctrine and Covenants 138:31-34. Does it not say here that the gospel will be preached to all who would repent of their sins . . . those who had died . . . in transgression, having rejected the prophets."
This clearly contradicts Elder McConkie's claim that those who reject the truth in this life cannot have a second chance.
Anonymous,
If you follow the footnote in D&C 138:31-34, it leads you to the portion of section 76 that talks about terrestrial inhabitants, not celestial. Those who accepted the gospel after rejecting the prophets in mortality go to the terrestrial kingdom after acceptance (D&C 76:71-74). Upon reading the qualifications for the terrestrial glory, it becomes quite evident that D&C 138:31-34 is referring to them, not inheritors of celestial glory.
Also, Those who believe the notion of progression between kingdoms base it on a mistaken idea of God’s mercy. Their reasoning is: since God is merciful he wouldn’t cause any of his children to be relegated to a lower kingdom forever. In reality, however, mercy and repentance are only offered to mankind while they are yet in a preparatory state. “Therefore, according to justice, the plan of redemption could not be brought about, only on conditions of repentance of men in this probationary state, yea, this preparatory state; for except it were for these conditions, mercy could not take effect except it should destroy the work of justice. Now the work of justice could not be destroyed” (Alma 42:13). The progression between kingdoms idea destroys God's justice and, if true, would make him cease to be God. After the final judgment, mercy and repentance is not operable for the deeds done in the flesh. “The days of the children of men were prolonged…that they might repent while in the flesh” (2 Ne. 2:21). For those who never heard the gospel in this life, their probation seems to extend, at least partly, into the spirit world, but no further. The Book of Mormon is careful to designate our probationary estate as the time when repentance is granted, and the time to prepare for eternity (Alma 12:24). But this scriptural teaching becomes meaningless if we allow for progression between kingdoms after the final judgment.
We are explicitly told that “where God and Christ dwell [Telestial inhabitants] cannot come, worlds without end” (D&C 76:112). Likewise with all those who have inherited a lower kingdom, they shall “remain separately and singly, without exaltation…to all eternity; and from henceforth are not gods, but are angels of God forever and ever” (D&C 132:17).
Like mentioned earlier, logically a progression between kingdoms would make our earthly probation essentially meaningless. If the chance to receive exaltation never expires, then there is no point for a probation on earth, and the whole plan of salvation is turned upside down on its head. This notion of progression between kingdoms doctrine is exposed in the Book of Mormon, when the antichrist Nehor incorrectly taught that “all mankind should be saved at the last day, and that they need not fear nor tremble” since “in the end, all men should have eternal life” (Alma 1:4). Furthermore, exaltation in the Celestial kingdom requires the covenant of marriage (D&C 131:1-4), but the scriptures say that “when they [Telestial and Terrestrial people] are out of the world they neither marry nor are given in marriage” (D&C 132:16). Also, a person who was inseparably resurrected with a Telestial or a Terrestrial body would not be able to abide a Celestial glory (Alma 11:45; D&C 88:27-31, 22-24).
Further, Mormon assures us that "every thing which inviteth to do good, and to persuade to believe in Christ, is sent forth by the power and gift of Christ; wherefore ye may know with a perfect knowledge it is of God. But whatsoever thing persuadeth men to do evil, and believe not in Christ, and deny him, and serve not God, then ye may know with a perfect knowledge it is of the devil; for after this manner doth the devil work, for he persuadeth no man to do good, no, not one" (Moroni 7:16-17). The idea or possibility of progression between kingdoms does not lead men to do good, but rather it does the opposite by giving them license to be careless during their mortal probation.
Ryan,
With all due respect, I believe that your take may be extremely structualist and subsequently contradictory to the gospel message. First, you speak of the "probationary state" and duly so because it is scriptural. However, we must remember that many have died without the gospel, so the term "probationary" is extremely relative, and I would balk to even guess to whom else it may apply.
You also state that our earthly life would be somewhat meaningless if there were progression between kingdoms. Well.....sorry, I just say hogwash, and here's why. This life is to learn and experience right from wrong without memory of our prior life. Mortality is a progression because we receive physical bodies, and that's what the resurrection is all about. Personally, I find it a bit counter intuitive to suggest the a 70 to 80 year time period, compared to all the eons, will be the ultimate finality. Again, eternal progression. Yet I dare say that it seems contradictory to say the we all have eternal progression while at the same time saying that we have eternal damnation. You can flip this from one side to another semantically, which is why I believe the spirit tells me that there is eternal progression.
Next, please do not ignore the portion of D&C 76 stating that the terrestrial kingdom is assigned the those who were blinded by the craftiness of men. Now this is a perfect example of just how unclear scriptures can be. If they were blinded, how can they be held accountable?
Also, notwithstanding a facile interpretation that a probationary period can be extended (self-contradicted, based on D&C 76-those that would have accepted the gospel) please tell me unequivically what the point in doing there temple work is. And please don't say "because God said to do it" , a very facile explanation,because we are dialoging reason here. So please support it.
Next, earlier in the post the term ministers was used. Those in the lesser kingdoms are being ministered unto. If I'm not mistaken, you failed to mention that nuance. So if you tell me you don't know what it means, then I do believe that your argument is trumped. That one little detail says a lot, and it was blithely ignored.
Next, the idea of progression without an expiration date does not imply that it would destroy the justice of God. Justice is a natural consequence of our actions, yet our actions still continue after this life.
But in all honestly, and I have to say that your interpretation of this life has somewhat destoryed your credibility (no offense), being pointless if we could progress between kingdoms is fallacious because it would imply that all the trillions of people who died without the gospel are, for all intents and purposes, screwed. This life is for much more than becoming a member of the church, receiving an endowment, etc... We learn right from wrong (in many ways)and more importantly, we gain a body. If the opposite were true, then I believe we're regressing our doctrine to a catholic/puritan/protostant mentality, which Joseph tried for so many years do disabuse people of. And subsequently, if we deny this possibility, then our doctrine simply ends up being at odds with itself.
Cheers!
BTW: not all will be saved at the last day, but more may be saved after.
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